"Paddy Rolling Stone"
Interview with Shane from Record Collector January 2004

At first dismisses by the Irish rock'n'roll establishment as a walking cliché - an embarrasing drunken Paddy - Shane MacGowan has become one of the most loved and respected artists on the planet. Having already achieved cult status as frontman of the Nipple Erectors in the late 70s, he tumed to his own cultural backyard for inspiration and formed the Pogues with longtime drinking partner Spider Stacy.
Inspired by life amid London's seething under-belly, MacGowan fused the ethos of punk with traditional Irish music, carrying off material that no one else could touch. Who else could sing about a struggling rent boy relieving old men at a fiver a pop and make it sound genuine?
There can be little doubt that MacCowan is one of the most talented songwriters of his generation. With the first two Pogues LPs alone (Red Roses For Me and Rum, Sodomy & The Lash), he left a legacy of dark, caustic fables, packed with enough emotion to power a light-house. Even the ferocious poetry of his upbeat songs (such as 'Sally MacLennane') are filled with sentimentality. And no one can do love songs like MacGowan - step forward 'A Rainy Night In Soho'. There are those who see him as a joke a toothless caricature, waiting for his liver to give up the ghost. But ever since the infamous Pogues split, he's continued to confound critics with the Popes. 1997's 'Lonesom'e Highway', for example, represents the most heartbreaking three minutes since Hank Williams recorded 'Lovesick Blues' - a primal scream for the disillusioned, a national anthem for terminal romantics. RC met Shane over a pint of the black stuff and asked him what led him to write songs in the first place. "I started writing my own stuff during punk, and the Pistols were our biggest influence. But my songs always had a more melodic feel that was different to most punk - I think it was the Irish influence".
Why did the Nipple Erectors record rockabilly?
We started off as a straight punk band but I just happened to write a rock'n'roll song, 'King Of The Bop'. I was heavily into rock'n'roll, and I still am. At that time, I was going through a phase, getting bored with punk, so the Nips ended up as a rock'n'roll hand.
The last Nips single, 'Gabrielle', has a mid-60s feel.
It was just the way we went. I was young and music was hitting me in waves - stuff I hadn't heard before. Old stuff, things I remembered from being a kid that just came back to me. Melodies are the most important thing - that's why those songs came out sounding like 60s pop.
How do you view the Nips now?
We were a great live band, with a huge following, but we never made a great record. We never got it down on vinyl properly, though 'Gabrielle' was very good. I still see Shanne from the Nips, and Spider Stacey from the Pogues.
What were you doing for the four years hetween the Nips and the Pogues?
I was in a completely nihilistie punk band called the Chainsaws, playing guitar, with Spider singing. Later, he was the whistle-player in the Pogues. We did a few gigs, but we used to clear out halls.
Where did you get the idea to fuse Irish songs with punk?
I never thought of it as punk, just as Irish music played as beat, pop and rock'n'roll. Irish music is the ultimate dance music and the ultimate smooch music. The slower ballads are the best ever, and for dancing you can't beat the fast stuff. I didn't see why you couldn't turn the kids onto that, and I was right. I felt that Irish music was getting very stale, so I wanted to give it a kick up the arse.
What are your favourite Pogues records?
The first three albums, and the Poguetry In Motion EP. The band changed a bit after Phil Chevron and Terry Woods joined. It became more complicated because there were more instruments. I did all the arrangements, the band played them, and towards the end, it got too complex. That's when I had to leave.
Hell's Ditch has a much lighter feel.
Those songs were either written in Thailand, or influeneed by it, or by Spain. Hell's Ditch was a straight rock album, moving away from Irish music. I realised I didn't really want to do that, so that's why I left. The first Popes album was back to the roots.
What did you think of the post-MacGowan Pogues albums?
Awful - they had the sound, but there aren't a lot of good songs there.
It was a couple of years after the Pogues before the Popes really got going.
There were various versions of the Popes during that time, doing gigs here and there. I was also doing solo gigs with pick-up bands in America, where I was a bit of a cult hero.
Your debut Popes LP, The Snake, is a very strong collection. Did you wait until you had enough quality material?
No. It went along at its own pace. The album got delayed by the record company and it could have come out a year earlier. Then they reissued it twice with extra songs. So every time I wrote a bloody song they'd put out a new version - it was ridiculous.
Around that time, you and Nick Cave collaborated on 'What A Wonderful World'.
It was a real laugh. I really admire Nick as a songwriter and we did some live stuff a couple of times. We haven't recorded since, but we still might.
What was the inspiration for the reggae-style 'B&I Ferry'?
When I was about 10 I got into stuff like Desmond Dekker and Horace Faith, though the first record I bought at that time was Axis: Bold As Love by Jimi Hendrix. There are a lot of musical connections hetween Irish music and reggae. A few old Irish tunes are very close to reggae rhythms, and there's a huge Irish influence in the Caribbean. I'm not that much into ragga, but there's some new rootsy stuff I like. My favourites are from the 70s, though - Big Youth, Lee Perry, I Roy, U Roy, Augustus Pablo.
How are you regarded in Ireland?
I'm a bit of a mascot - 'our Shane' - and I get treated with an enormous amount of respect, bur not arse-licking. I've been on the Late Late Sbow loads of times, including playing 'Spancil Hill' with Christy Moore, which I hope to record one day.
Which of your songs do you like the most?
I like most of them, but particularly 'Fairy Tale Of New York', 'A Rainy Night In Soho', 'The Broad Majestic Shannon" 'London You're A Lady' and 'Summer In Siam'.
What about 'Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah'?
That's what I was doing at the time, and I wanted to write a Northern soul track with a good tune. But I don't like it that much.
If asked to name your Top 10 influences, who would they be?
No way! ... Tom Waits is a big influence, the Dubliners, Hendrix, Scan O'Riada, O'Carolan, Van Morrison, Nick Cave, Hank Williams, Roy Orbison, Lou Reed, Holland-Dozier-Holland, Isaac Hayes and David Porter.
Do you have any unfulfilled ambitions?
Yeah. I wanna do more crooning and I'd like to produce. And I'd love to meet Lee Perry.

Thanks to Jono Scott.